Crafting a connection to self and others with Nasreen Imrit

Hello and welcome back to series two of the Why I

Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical

psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits

for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different

knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental

health. This week on the podcast, I'm joined by Nasreen

Imrit, also known as @sewcraftynaz on Instagram.

Nasreen is quite a new knitter but an experienced crocheter and

sewer and multicrafter.

Hi, Nasreen. Welcome to the podcast.

Hi, Mia. Thank you for inviting me on to the

podcast.

You're very welcome. I'm delighted to have you! So

you are a multicrafter? And a relatively new knitter, is that

right?

Yes, that's right. My crafting journey

probably started when I was about 11/12, so starting

secondary school and doing Textiles, which was known as

Home Economics at the time. We had to make these aprons for the

next module, which was going to be Cookery. So we had to start

embroidering, to embroider something on the little pocket.

So that's how I discovered thread, and then started to do a

hand embroidery, and I really, really enjoyed it. And then I

think my dad noticed and was like, "Oh, what's this?" and I

said, "Oh, we have to embroider this thing", and then he... So

my mum passed away when I was really little, when I was five,

and she enjoyed crochet. She made mostly doilies and I think

she made a couple of shawls, so my father kept all those things

for when myself and my sister would be a bit older; we might

be interested. So that's how I discovered yarn and crochet. And

at the time, obviously there was the books that she had, and I

just picked up whatever crochet hooks she had, which were really

small ones because she was making more doilies and really

fine lace things.

So was she using thread more than yarn?

Yeah, she actually had some fingering yarn

as well. And then I just picked it up and I thought, "Let's just

try this". And I remember the first things I made ended up

being tiny beanies for my Barbie dolls.

Okay, wow!

Because I didn't know how to increase so I just

kept going in the round, so it became a little bowl. So I was

like, "Well, that could be a good little hat for my dolls."

So that's how I started to crochet. I made anything that

would work out through the bowl, because that's all I could do,

little baskets...

Yeah, kids are so great at finding a use for

something. They've made something and they're going to

turn it into a thing. I found that in my knitting groups, as

well. They're really good at seeing the potential in

something that's an unusual shape.

Yeah they are, absolutely. And yeah, so that's

how I started crochet, then dabbled in lots of little

things, mostly cross stitch and embroidery. And then when I

started having my children, I started to crochet again and do

blankets and hats and things. But I probably took it bit more

seriously in the last few years, as the kids grew up a little.

I've just always wanted to keep trying new crafts and keep

trying new things. Cross stitch was a favourite for a while but

obviously the work's quite slow. And so then I discovered quicker

crafts, things like dot printing, screen printing (that

was a fad for a little while), so really transforming tote bags

and things like that. And then as I had children, they wanted

to get involved. "Come on, I'm going to come into your craft

room. What can I do?" And I'm like, "Oh, what can you do...?

Don't touch anything!" (Laughs) So that's been quite interesting

because it's helped me understand craft on many levels,

in terms of doing it for myself and how do I connect my children

with it. And so then obviously my next challenge was to learn

to knit. And for me it was just seeing jumpers like yours,

constantly, on Instagram! And I was like, "I want to make this!

I want to make this!" And although with crochet you can

kind of get a little bit close, you can't get that same effect

that you get with knitting.

Yeah, it's the different kind of texture, I

suppose, of the fabric, isn't it?

So that was my main inspiration to learn to

knit. And then I somehow, in one of those competitions they have

in Instagram giveaways, won some circular needles and I was like,

"Ooh, I must start using them!" And so I kind of fell in and out

of love with it initially because I could do so many other

things quicker. I could crochet quicker, I could sew quicker.

But when I did start it, I actually found it quite

addictive because it was the use of both hands, which initially

was challenging as I kept dropping the left needle quite a

lot.

Because you're used to just having one implement.

And I was like, "Oh no, oh no, oh no, I need to

save the stitches!"

And I guess just one stitch, usually, with crochet as

That was it! You work stitch by stitch and you

well.

can stop your work, you can lose your crochet needle, it wouldn't

matter.

I always lose my crochet hook, just in the sofa!

When we take the sofa cushions off, there's always a crochet

hook in there!

Yeah, likewise. So I think that that initially

felt a bit new to me, like, "Ooh, I can't just whip this up

really quickly, I have to really sit down and concentrate." But

Oh, great!

once I kind of accepted it as a different craft - not because

It was a variegated yarn but I tried some

colourwork with yellow, because I was like, "No no no, that's

I'm a crocheter, I can just knit - I actually enjoyed it. So I

where I'm going, I want to do colourwork." And I actually

would do it more to relax rather than to produce something. I

made a phone sock as my first project, which I think I have

really enjoyed it! But then again, with lots of WIPs going

saved somewhere, with some scrap yarn, and I even tried some

on, I thought, "Okay, I will pick that up at some point when

colourwork on it.

I've got time." But then my mother-in-law came to stay with

us for a bit, to spend some time with us, and then she was like,

"Ooh, I've always wanted to learn to knit." And I was like,

"Okay, let's do it!" And we both sat down in front of the laptop

with YouTube on, and she took to it really quickly. She made a

mini thing, just garter stitch, that ended up being a little

neck wrap that you could wear if you're cold around the house,

and she really loved it. So I picked up knitting again, just

to do it together with her, and thought I was gonna make myself

a top. So that's still ongoing. I pick it up, put it down,

depending on whether I just need something to relax and not to

follow any pattern because it's just going to be a rectangle

really. But yeah, it's a slow start but I'm learning to see it

as very different from my other crafts that I do. I'm seeing it

I know there's going to be an end but I

enjoy just the bit that I'm doing at that time. I wasn't too

sure about it to start with but I think it's growing on me quite

nicely.

There's so much I want to ask you about what

you've already said. You've had a slightly different journey to

many people because you've got quite good in other similar

crafts that are similar but a bit different, and I wonder

whether that just made you... Like, most new knitters wouldn't

even think about a colourwork sweater, probably, whereas I

wonder whether you felt like you had this springboard and you

almost had higher expectations of knitting to start with

because you already were really good at crochet, for example,

and maybe that was a tricky experience!

I think you're right because I started doing

Oh, that's good!

colourwork in crochet. There's a stitch that actually resembles

knitting a bit, which is the centre stitch. So I started

doing some colourwork in crochet and I really, really enjoyed it.

And then I was like, "Ooh, now this is the next step", not

actually really appreciating that it is actually a complete

different skill. And I was like,"Yeah, if you can crochet

you will be able to knit really quickly". On Instagram,

obviously, I know a lot of crocheters-knitters and they

I know! He's like, "Oh, you're knitting!"

were like, "You'll be absolutely fine". And they've been really

really helpful with pointing me in the right directions, what

patterns to try first, etc. And I'm like, "No, I'm going for a

colourwork sweater!" (Laughs) But then I thought no, maybe a

hat, let's start with a hat. I think that that expectation was

what probably set me back initially, because I was like,

"It's yarn, it's two needles, I crochet, I should be able to do

"Yes I am!" (Laughs) It's something that I'm going to

it." But once I kind of set that aside, I realised actually I

enjoyed it so much more, and I accepted it as its own craft, as

its own skill. Even my husband can tell the difference between

knitting and crochet now!

develop more this year, I think. And yeah, let's watch this

space, see what I make!

And I'm interested in the idea that you might have

different crafts that give you different things, like the idea

of having some times where you might need something that feels

more relaxing, and it's okay for it to be slow. And maybe there

are other times where you feel like, I need... I think you used

the words "quick fix" just before we started recording. I'm

interested in hearing a bit more about that, like how you decide

whether it's based on your mood, or what else is going on in your

life or...?

Yeah, so I find that each week, I need to make

something.

Does it need to be finished, or just spend some

time making it?

No, just spend some time making it, but at

least it's tangible. It's a tangible progress. I work part

time, and the rest of the time is kids, etc. But then if I do

make something or make progress on something, it makes me feel

like, "Oh, yeah, I've done something for myself this week".

So it feels like your thing, for you.

Yeah, it's my thing, for me. And sometimes

with large projects, even though I've done two or three rows, it

doesn't feel tangible because it's large, and it's going to be

ages before it's finished. So I have little quick projects, like

block printing which I quite like, and often, if I want to do

that in an evening, my boys will always come in, "Can I try it?"

And then they will use one of their old vests and they will

join in and print their vests.

And how old are they?

They're seven and four. They just want to spend

that time, and then they will come in (and if one comes in,

the other one will come in). And I was like, "Okay, well find

some old vests and you can block print." And they block printed a

couple of vests, it was quite funny. I always have some spare

tote bags and scrap fabrics that are plain, so I'll block print

them. If it's a tote bag, that will probably be gifted at some

point. If it's a piece of fabric, then I know that I'll

probably use it to make a little pouch for something. And then

I'll be like, "Ooh, that feels finished." Or I will actually

look up a pattern and choose yarn for it and put it

separately so it'll make me feel like I've decided something or

I've made something. So my quick crafts tend to be things (like

with block printing) that are quite small, or I'll arrange all

my scraps to decide a project that I can use all my scraps

for. Or sometimes I'll make things that are just squares, so

crochet squares. If you made a square, that can take about 45

minutes, and then feel like, "Okay, I've added another square

to this project." So it would depend on the week that I've had

as to whether I need my quick fix. If I know I won't have much

time, got to wait in the car for somebody to finish something,

I'll just do a quick thing and then I'll be like, "Yep! Done

it. I'm okay now."

Do you plan that quite deliberately, like to sit

and think what do I need right now? Do I need to have something

quick that I finish, or could I just do a couple of rounds on

this knitted thing?

I do think about it deliberately a lot more now.

When I used to work a lot more, I would find that the day that I

was off I'd be floating about just kind of doing the things

that needed to be done, and at the end of the day you just

still feel mentally tired, even though you've achieved quite a

lot. I wasn't consciously making time for that break, to think

how do I break away from work and everything else. So now,

towards the end of my working week (which is Wednesday) I will

actually think during my lunch break, "Okay, what do I feel

like this week?" and then I will know if I'm putting on too much,

"Okay, now I don't have to finish that, that can wait." So

I will deliberately make myself think, "Okay, I'll probably try

and finish a border on this. And actually, I'm not going to pick

up another new project, I'll try and finish this a little bit

longer. I'm a bit bored with this. Maybe I'll just put this

aside." So I'll talk myself through it for 10 minutes or so.

So then I actually do feel that when I've done it I'm like,

"Yeah, actually, that was alright." It was contained, it

was planned. I actually feel better that I've achieved what I

wrote down. So it's all that feeling of having made a list

and having achieved it as well.

So you're quite goal-focused.

Yeah, I find that works better for me because I

have a lot of WIPs across all the crafts. So I can get lost

into it. I get distracted very quickly, so I've found that

helps keep me focused.

Interestingly, Nasreen, no-one else has

mentioned school in their crafting origins story, which is

interesting. And certainly in my own experience, I'd kind of

almost forgotten I'd done Textiles at school because it

was so off-putting. (Laughs) The teachers were so scary that I

was 100% convinced I would sew through my finger on the

machine. I haven't done that yet! Similarly, making pastry:

also filled with terror. So that's interesting, actually.

Obviously there was enough good about it that it got you hooked,

actually. It was a positive experience for you.

Yes, it was. And I think because obviously, there

wasn't anybody who really did any crafts in the immediate

family, obviously I didn't know my mum, so I think for me it was

like a lightbulb moment. I was like, "Wow!" I grew up in

Mauritius for a bit, so that's where I'm from originally, and I

remember on the way back from school there was one little

embroidery shop, a craft shop, on the way home. And I would

save my pocket money and I would buy embroidery thread on the way

home. And I would buy a new colour each time. And those

moments still are quite vivid, because I would remember "Oh my

god, I've got so many shades of this one!" And I even made a

cross stitch for my brother when I was 15 because he travelled

and he was missing home, so I made him a little Home Sweet

Home cross stitch project. So the memories of that actually

are quite nice in the sense that I'm really glad I discovered it

through school.

It sounds like it also was a really nice link to

your mum.

It was, and I think obviously having lost her

so young, we always found ways to reconnect with her. And she

was a baker, she crocheted, she sewed. I still have her books

from the 80s. I was looking at them the other day and was like,

"I should try and make something that doesn't look terribly

dated. There are some things I could probably make." And I

thought I might do that. So my dad said, "Okay, there you go."

So my sister's got the baking side of things. She loves baking

and decorating cakes. And I do more of the crafting, the sewing

and the crochet. So it was really, really nice to have that

connection and actually love crafting. My dad would always

tell me,"Your mum used to make that." And that was actually

quite nice to have that.

And also special that he kept some of the things she

actually made and her crochet hooks.

Yeah, so I still have her crochet hooks and some

bits and bobs that she made. A lot of it used to be home decor

things, like little doilies and things like that. They've kept

really well, actually. So that was very precious. I guess

that's how my love for craft actually started, which is

really nice, and I carried on with it. And yeah, it's a big

part of my life, I would say.

And that must be a special thing to share with your

kids as well, that they can see those things that their grandma

made.

That's it! Yeah, I was showing it to my daughter

the other day, and I was like, "Oh look, this is my mum's

book." She was like, "Oh, wow!" And she was amazed it wasn't in

black and white. I was like, "No, colour did exist!" (Laughs)

And we were looking at it, and obviously the patterns used to

be in these little foldable paper flyer type things when

they bought the patterns, and very brief. It's really

interesting to see how it was, you know, none of the yarns

exist anymore. It's really interesting. She was like, "Oh,

this one's cute. You could make that!" for one of my little

nieces. So it was really nice to show that, and also to pass on

the love of making to them as well, although they're

interested in different things. I find it's an integral part of

home, actually making, for us. Well, not my husband probably

but the rest of them! (Laughs)

I suppose part of this podcast is about thinking

about how crafting can benefit our mental wellbeing, and that

those of us who do it a lot feel like we get lots of benefit on a

kind of wellbeing level from doing it. And I think there are

many ways you can interpret craft, like some people do Lego,

I had a client who was making circuit boards, doing all these

things I didn't understand. But the the feeling behind it, I

suppose, was very similar to the feeling I get from making

something from scratch, with yarn and needles or sewing a

dress or something. The idea of having something where the

outcome is not high stakes, nobody else cares about it, you

can kind of experiment or be creative and a safe place to

make mistakes, and that it's kind of just for you with no

other useful purpose, necessarily.

Absolutely. I noticed that with my daughter,

she's more into calligraphy, so she can sit there and will do

beautiful lettering, and she will apply that to her art or

her homework and things. So that's her thing. My middle one

will cross stitch. He actually asked me the other day... we've

run out of the size of the aida that he actually uses, and he

was like, "Can I do a cross stitch?" and I was like, "I

don't think we've got the size that you use, we have to get

some other ones." So it's a nice quiet space for him. And he'll

cross stitch mostly vehicles, but it doesn't matter. So he

cross stitches anything that he likes, and if he makes a

mistake, I'll say "It's alright! We'll just cut it and start

again." So he really, really likes it. And I think they've

noticed, especially my middle one, that if you need some quiet

time, that's a nice space for him to recharge, and feel that

this is something that's just his. He uses it a lot when he

feels like the world's getting too much or schools getting too

much and things like that. So he really does enjoy that. And you

won't hear him! He's the loudest, but you will not hear

him at all. And then he started sewing. So he's got interested

in sewing a little bit. He does keep coming into my room saying,

"What can we sew?", and I was like, "I don't have any boy

fabric anymore!." (Laughs) Because I bought some for their

room but they've used it all up. And I was like, "Well, I don't

have anything with cars or planets or dinosaurs anymore."

But yeah, I really love the way that they're all, in their own

way, discovering working with their hands a lot more and

creating things themselves actually.

Yeah and it sounds like you really notice that

having an impact on them, that they kind of feel regulated and

calm when they're doing it.

They do. And I think it's really nice because

it's something that they've done and they've made; it's not just

their homework or their school activities, all these scripted

things. So things where they have a blank canvas and they can

go wild. They can decide what they want to make and what they

want to draw and what they want to write and things like that.

So I think that's quite important, especially during

lockdown when we couldn't go very far anywhere. It was

somewhere to actually explore, these avenues to think how can

they express themselves and find an outlet. And I think that was

really useful at the time.

And I think with kids, they don't get that many

choices over things really, do they? Like they're told what

their English homework is and there's probably very little

scope for choice, and the older they get, probably the less

scope there is for choice, what they write about. So it's nice

for them to have a space to create something where they're

the boss.

Yes! Yeah, absolutely, and I think we

noticed that a lot more over lockdown. My daughter started

making little furniture out of paper. So she would have the

boxes of cardboard and she would make a little bedroom.

Everything was made out of tiny cardboard or paper. She'd make

this little scene. That's her idea of making. She's more pen

and paper now. And my son did the cross stitch. The little one

just kind of dabbles into everything at the moment. He's

not quite sure yet. They will come into my room and be like,

"Ooh, what can I have to put in my little project?" So I was

like, "Okay, you can have ribbons, you can have this, you

can have this." But yeah, I do think that it has a big, big

space for mental wellbeing, to promote mental wellbeing in all

children and adults.

And it's a great thing to send them out into the

world with, isn't it, for the rest of their lives really, this

kind of little hidden superpower that when they need to feel

calmer, they can go and do that. Take themselves off. Certainly

at university, I hadn't discovered knitting then but I

did some cross stitch. I would go and secretly do it in my room

when everyone else was cramming and I'd had enough of revision (laughs).

Yeah, absolutely. And you reminded me actually...

I studied in Manchester at the same med school as Atia (Azmi).

There's lots of fabric shops there, so I remember buying

this piece of fabric that was enough to cover my single bed

but the weave was as such that you could cross stitch through

it. I had it on my bed and I decided that I would just add

little bits to it. So that's why I would take breaks from my

revision. I would go and say, "Oh, I'll make a little piece on

it." I don't have it anymore, I think. I'd put a little piece on

there and then I'd go back to my revision. So it was basically

several years of bits of cross stitch on it for a while. I

might be able to locate it. I can't remember where I've left it.

Have you got a photograph? That sounds like an

amazing keepsake!

It does! I know that it's been around for ages.

I haven't seen it recently. We've moved a few times, so I

need to try and find it. Photos... it's going to be from

a very long time ago, probably not digital even.

Yeah, that's the tricky thing, isn't it, with

pre-digital?

I'm going to try and find out if I can still see

it. I think I can still find it somewhere. But yeah, you just

reminded me of that. Yes, at uni...

So were you crafting buddies, you and Atia?

For a little while. We spent three or four

weeks, I think, doing a project in Wales. So we went to Wales

together; there was me, her and another friend. And I remember

spending a lot of time in libraries looking at cross

stitch books and other craft books. So we would spend a lot

of our spare time being in the library and think, "Oh wow, look

at these patterns!" and things like that. So we spent that

three... I think it was three weeks, actually... three weeks

in Wales together, a good few years ago now. But we didn't do

much crafting together at uni as such. But I reconnected with her

a few years ago through Instagram. That's when I

discovered Instagram.

I've had quite a few health professionals get in

touch with me who are knitters or crafters. Parlty maybe that's

because I am a psychologist and they're more attracted to the

idea of what I'm talking about. It was something I noticed when

I did salsa dancing years ago, that there were loads of doctors

there, and I suppose I developed this theory that being a doctor

is quite stressful and quite taxing on the brain, and that

maybe that means you need kind of an active way of turning off

your brain from your work. So the idea of dancing, I suppose

it's hard to think about anything else if you're trying

to coordinate what your feet and your hands are doing at the same

time. And I wondered also about craft, whether that's the

that it's quite an active way of switching your

brain off from other things and having this... I don't know...

escape. I don't know what your thoughts are.

Yeah, I would agree with you, because I would

remember the time where crafting was there but not a major part

of my life. So if I had a hard day, so probably at the

beginning, when I went into my first years as a doctor, I would

be so tired I'd probably spend the evening watching TV, but

that would not relax me at all. You think that if you empty your

brain, you're filling it with something else. And I think

after doing that for a while I did notice that actually I just

felt more and more tired, which is when then picking up a

craft... the fact that you're concentrating on it, reading a

pattern to it... you're actually actively emptying your mind of

the other things, rather than just blocking it and watching a

screen which obviously doesn't do that at all. So I do think

that it has that effect of cleansing your mind in the way

that you're concentrating on something repetitive, something

creative. And I do notice the difference after doing some

crafts if I've had a stressful day. So after finishing work,

catching up with everything I have to do, if I shut myself in

a room and decide to just crochet for a couple of hours or

even sew, I will notice the difference. When I come out I do

feel mentally refreshed in a way. So I yeah, I definitely

believe that it does actually healthily help you kind of

cleanse rather than forget. And at the same time you're creating

something. I think it does have a big part to play towards

preventing burnout for a lot of people who feel burnt out,

because it is difficult to switch off. Possibly from the

it's quite difficult to switch off

from the things that you have to listen to, you have to hear.

Even though you've got your professional hat on, you still

absorb it. You're still human, you still absorb it. And to

learn to let that go is necessary, I think. To have a

method of really switching off and recharging before the next

day or the next thing. So yeah, I'm a strong believer in that.

I'd go everywhere with my crochet stuff if I could!

(Laughs) Even when there's no time, I take it with me. You

never know, you might get stuck in traffic!

Yeah, definitely. That's really interesting, the

idea about preventing burnout. I think burnout's an increasingly

big problem, isn't it, in the health service, certainly here.

And yeah, I resonate a lot with what you say about finding a way

of... I find sometimes I'm attracted to really complicated

patterns because, like you say, I want to absorb myself fully in

something so my brain can't be thinking about other things from

my day. But also the idea of having this kind of soothing

repetitive motion. It almost sounded like you get something

almost a bit rejuvenating from it, like that time you spend in

your craft room.

I do. It's like my little haven. I'm quite lucky

to have a space, and that the children know I'm generally off

limits. (Laughs) So on the days when they're at school and I'm

not at work, I will actually have the door closed and maybe

listen to something, maybe not, depending on whether I want

quiet. And it will just be like the best time in the world, just

making something. Over time, as I've learned to understand what

crafting means to me, I've realised actually I need it.

It's part of something that I need to be who I have to be, at

home at work, etc. rather than just being this thing that I do

because I enjoy it. I remember when I was cross stitching in my

late teens/early 20s, I used to get comments like, "Why are you

doing that? This is what old people do." They would say it in

a laughing way and it would be relatives. "Why are you doing

that? You should be going out!" And I'm like, "Well, I really

like it. I love watching this white fabric just burst with

colour, and I made this!" They wouldn't really understand it,

but I'm glad it's not something that anyone's been able to ever

take away from me, even from that age.

Do you think you understood then? Because I think

certainly for myself, I don't think I really understood that I

needed it and that it was beneficial to my mental well

being until really relatively recently. Maybe the last five or

so years, I've really thought deliberately about what do I

need right now for me in terms of crafting, and just how

important it was to me. And I had certainly lots of those

comments about being an old lady and those kind of things at

university, when I was literally the only person doing cross

stitch or knitting. I'd be interested to hear about the

journey you've been on in terms of your understanding about how

much you've needed craft.

I would say in my early years I didn't link it to

my mental health as such. It was really just, "Mum used to do it.

I really want to do it." So I kind of grew into that. And then

I always just liked it. That was just it. I just liked thread and

I did it on and off, on and off, through uni as well. But I would

say in terms of benefit to my mental health, probably the last

four or five years, I would say. That's possibly because now my

youngest is four, so I was too busy to actually think about it.

And then recently, obviously now they're all a bit older, but

there is still lots more to do. I started thinking about it more

deliberately. As they get older their needs increase, and work's

been more stressful with Covid times, and I think that's made

me a lot more aware of it. It's gone from being a hobby to

something that's more therapy. When I discovered Instagram,

that was mad because I was like, "(Gasp) Look at all these

patterns! Look at all these people!" So that's how I learned

to sew, when I discovered Instagram, and I self-taught.

And when you say sew, what do you mean by sewing? Is

that like machine-sewing or hand-sewing or...?

Yes, I do mainly machine-sewing.

And is it clothes or...?

Yeah, so I made the dress that I'm wearing at

the moment. I do mostly clothes and I will make random things

for my children, like if they need a little bag I'll make them

pouches for things, clothes for their little teddies and stuff.

But then Instagram initially stressed me out because I had to

make everything that I saw. (Laughs) I had a bit of a

love/hate relationship with my craft, because it kind of tipped

into being this stressful thing from being this relaxing thing,

because there was always something that I had on my list.

The lists are still there but they don't stress me out so

much. I had to learn to tip that balance, that actually my craft

was to relax me not because I need to churn out three things

by the end of the week.

It sounds like your automatic thing is kind of an

ambitious drive sensation of "Ooh, look at all these things!

I could make them." And I can hear the doctor in you there,

like the ambitious person wants to go for it, and that you've

kind of slowly reined that in into "No, this can be a bit more

about process and not just about achievement."

Exactly. And I think that's where knitting has

really come in, because obviously, as I've started to be

more mindful of what I'm doing, meditating, taking that time

out, the knitting actually fits in really nicely with that. You

enjoy the process of knitting because it's not one stitch at a

time; you've got to do a few rows before you can actually see

what you're doing and see what's come out. Whereas with crochet,

you've done a few stitches, "Oh yeah, I can see, yeah that's

going to look like that for the next..." But with knitting, you

have to be patient with it for a bit before you can actually

understand. So that's where I was just thinking actually,

yeah, I'm ready to start to take this on. But yeah, the last

couple of years, as I've taken sewing and crochet and now

knitting more seriously, I've had to find my balance between

wanting to make everything that exists and, you know, having a

sweater like yours (which I will get to one day!) to actually

just putting it back and making sure that my craft doesn't

become like everything else that I have to do. So that's been

very interesting. And it sounds

And it sounds like now, Nasreen, it's very much

part of a deliberate part of your self-care strategy.

Yeah, absolutely. So, for example, normally if I

make something I would say, "Okay, I'm going to follow this

pattern and then I'm going to make it." Because I know it will

only take me two days to make it, for example a sewing

pattern. But when I sit and think about it, what I really

want to do is I want to create. So I know that actually I don't

like this bit of it, but I'd like to add some applique to it;

I could even add some crochet to it. If I gave myself that little

bit of time to think, I would come up with something that I'd

absolutely love because I took the time and I was mindful about

it. So I'm learning to do that a little bit more, rather than

just think, "Yeah, I made it." And I'm finding that initially

challenging, but I'm getting better at it. So I can let

something sit for a while and think, "Actually, let me come

back when I feel that I really love what I'm doing right now,

and it is me" rather than "I've done this pattern. There you go,

guys. Look, I made it."

Do you feel like it's more rewarding when you do it

the second way? Slower and slightly more creative, giving

yourself time to have those ideas in the first place?

I do. I've made a couple of pieces of clothing

like that, a dress that I made with an old shawl... So that

shawl was a beautiful shawl I bought from India. For some

reason I decided to put it on a surface. I put candles on,

didn't put a plate, the candles kind of ruined some of it. It

was so beautiful, I kept the part that was still okay. And

then I decided to incorporate it as part of a dress, but

obviously I had to redesign the dress slightly to make it work.

It took me longer but when I look at it, I love it so much

more because I was like "Okay, it is exactly as I wanted it to

be." So I'm learning to do that a little bit more, rather than

just say, "Yep, made this pattern, made this one, made

this one".

And there'd be none others in the entire world that

are exactly the same as yours.

Exactly. So yeah, my relationship with craft has

evolved through the years to somewhere where I think I wanted

to be.

And how about your relationship with the finished

objects? I don't know whether there's anything about that that

still gives you kind of therapeutic value. For example,

like today you're wearing a dress you made; does that make a

difference to your mental health on a daily basis, do you think?

Now it does! When I first started, I didn't like

the things I made! I don't know whether I was just too self

critical, or is it that perfectionist in me that, you

know... It wasn't quite... It was a bit rough round the edges.

So I remember with first few things I made, I'd be like,

"Hmm, I'll wear that thing that I bought instead." But now, most

days I will wear something that I made. And it just gives you

that sense of warmth that nothing else tends to. And I'm

like living in this dress at the moment because it's warm. And

I'm like, "Ooh, should I buy some more fabric the same and

just make a top? Because it's actually quite nice and warm."

And I'll add pockets to designs that do not have pockets,

because we all need pockets all the time. But generally, I

notice myself sometimes, I'll be like, "Oh, am I wearing anything

I made today?" and usually there would be one item. And I don't

find myself buying clothes anymore, much. I will look, but

generally if I'm browsing online I'm taking pictures of what

people are wearing! I'm like, "Oh, I could make this!" rather

than actually buying it. But yes, it does make me feel more

confident, and it's like a silent confidence that yeah, you

know, I made this and I'm comfortable in this, and it's

me.

And do people around you know? Like people at work,

do they know about that side of you and notice if there's

something you've made, or think that you might have made it?

Yes, at work there's a few of my colleagues

who do know that I make things. So every now and then they will

look at me like "Did you make that?" And sometimes it'll be

yes, sometimes it'll be no, because sometimes they can't

tell!

No, with sewing I think it's harder to tell, isn't

it? Whereas with a knitted jumper, it probably looks more

obviously hand-knitted.

Yeah, it looks more handmade. So they do

comment on it. And I've made a few things for a couple of

people at work as well. So they do know that I make it. I was

People ask me about knitted things, but the hourly

making something at work the other day. We had a training

afternoon over Zoom, and one of my colleagues came in. She was

like, "Are you making that? Are you selling it?" And I said, "I

haven't thought about it yet!" She was like, "Well, if you're

not doing anything about it, I'll buy it, I'll buy it!"

(Laughs) I find that really hard. I've never thought of

selling things I make!

rate would be 0.00p! (Laughs) So it's not something I'm

interested in.

That's the thing! I was speaking to my husband

about it and I said, "I wouldn't know what to sell this for,

because the amount of time I've spent on it... people won't be

willing to pay what it's worth!" So yeah, my crafting bug or

obsession (whichever one!) is generally well known. Family as

well - they will always ask me, "What are you making?" But yeah,

it's part of me now, and I'm kind of glad it's not this thing

that old people make. And you know, I've found a lot more

confidence in it, that actually I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I

discovered it when I did.

And did it help finding other similar people on

Instagram, as in people who were younger? Certainly when I

discovered Instagram, which was long after I started to knit, I

felt like I'm not the only person my age who's doing this,

and found more patterns that were more things I would be

interested in wearing, for example.

My sister asked me to go on Instagram and I was

like, "Nah, I don't see why I would." And then I decided to,

about three years ago, and then I developed a lot more as a

crocheter and a sewer at that point, because I discovered

all the indie sewing designers, all the beginner

patterns. And then I started doing colourwork in crochet

which are things that I hadn't ventured into before. I started

doing tapestry; I designed a blanket then a cushion about

three years ago. I've designed several things. I have too

many... I get distracted too easily. I haven't followed

through into publishing them. I've got about two or three

other things that I've made and designed but not written up or

released, so that might come one day.

Yeah? That's exciting!

I've met designers as young as 15 on

Instagram who are so so talented, yarn dyers and stuff,

and it's been such an amazing space to find other people who

do what I do. Because before that I was the only one who did

what I did. Which is fine... everyone's like, "Oh you do

this!" but now it's like no no no, ALL these people do this.

There's a whole world out there! So yeah, it's an app where I've

learned so much. So so much. And I still keep learning. But I've

certainly learned so much from all the people I've come across

online. You help each other. You know, they've tested my pattern,

I've tested patterns for a lot of people, so made some nice

Insta friends. I made face masks for them during the pandemic, at

the beginning. So yeah, it's been really lovely to build that

community.

I'd love to hear about a significant project. It

doesn't have to be knitting; it could be crochet or any other

craft. I don't know if you can think of something that stands

out as being a kind of significant project for you.

I have a couple. So I have one that I made. It's

upstairs. It's actually made on a canvas. It was the last one I

made before I had children, and it was made with scraps from a

cushion cover. It was a combination of... so if you

imagine a large rectangular canvas, and it has fabric stuck

on it with a ribbonwork and embroidery and paint. So then I

painted in Arabic on it. So it was just a massive combination

of loads of different crafts, and that was like the biggest

thing I made for the house. Apart from that, I'd probably

say the things that I make for my children. So they all have

this little teddy that's exactly the same. My daughter had it,

and by the time we realised she was so attached to it we bought

a spare, just in case she ever lost it. She never lost it, so

then the second one got the teddy. And then when we had a

third, we were like, "Well, he's going to be left out!" Every so

often I have to renew their outfits. They have mini jackets

- crochet jackets - and I think that's the thing that's just the

most loved. So they will put their jackets on in winter; in

summer they're hot so they'll take their jackets off. So their

jackets go on and off, and then after a few years my daughter

was like, "We need to make a new jacket. This is just getting

really tatty." So they will choose their yarn, and it's a

good way to use up scraps. That will be the thing that is hugged

the most, all the time. So I think that's probably my nicest

project that I've made, the things that I've made for them.

Or the blankets. I've made a few blankets for them. It'll always

be dens, but it's the fact that they choose those blankets to

make the dens with, and they know that I made it for them.

And then they will always proudly say, "Oh my mum made

this!" "No no no, that's my blanket!" you know, if somebody

else touches them. "That's my one, go and touch the one that

my mum made for you." So, you know, they really find it

something quite precious. So I'd probably say those are my most

significant makes in that sense.

Yeah, so the family connection is really special.

Oh, that's amazing. I always end with asking: what's the greatest

gift that craft has given you for the rest of your life?

I would say connection, because I guess

that's how my relationship with craft started, was trying to

connect with my mum's memory and what she did. And then obviously

moving into kind of connecting with myself, and then connecting

with other people through the web, and then finding a

different way to connect with my children and passing that on to

them. So my middle one who loves crafting is waiting for me to

make a next... we make little reels about how to do easy

things... so easy projects. So he's looking forward... I told

him we'll try and make another one this weekend. So I get to

have a one to one time with them, with something that they

enjoy. And it's always something crafty. So I think that that

connection and that love that's been passed on - I think that

would probably be my main takeaway, my main connection

(I'm using the word connect again!) to crafts. It's what

links me to it that's the strongest thing, I would say.

Yeah, that's really special. And it's really

interesting that you said it's connection in your family, but

also to yourself... like feeling really you.

Yeah! It's so versatile because you can have

it be something that's completely your own, but it can

also be something that creates friendships and creates... You

know, like the other day we were talking about health and

wellbeing at work, and I was saying to one of my colleagues,

"How about if we started to teach crochet and stuff?" She

was like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes!" Not sure how it's going to

materialise but it's something that we would like to try and do

and see if people are interested to learn crafting - different

types of craft to promote health and wellbeing at work.

I think it's such a lovely... I mean, I did it for a

few... it wasn't deliberately for that but I had a colleague

who had twins and they were very special babies (long-awaited and

two of them) and lots of people came up to me and said "I know

you knit. Can you help me knit a cardigan for these babies?" and

I was thinking, "The last thing these poor children need is 15

half-knitted holey cardigans in the same size!" (laughs) and I

was like, "This is what we're going to do: I'll buy yarn, you

can knit squares, or crochet squares, and I'll crochet them

together to make blankets." Because that's easier,

obviously, than doing the shaping and everything, for

people who were... some of them were rusty knitters, some of

them were completely new to knitting. But actually it was

lovely! Often on a Friday, and it was just a very short amount

of time, like half an hour, where we'd go in the staff room,

and I could help people with various dropped stitches and

things, and some people did crochet, some people did

knitting, but it really did give people a... Like lots of people

commented on having that little space, because so many people

were just eating at their desks (me included!) and we had some

different conversations about, you know, family stories about

knitting and crochet. And I got to know people in a different

way, who I didn't really know much about their personal life.

It was really a boost to team morale, I think.

I think you're absolutely right, and that comes

back to the whole connection thing,. You know, the people we

work with, we just talk about work. But to have a space which

is away from that and be able to talk to them and to have a chat

with them on a different level completely is just too rare, I

think.

And just to give them that skill, like you've done

with your kids, to give them this kind of therapeutic

potentiaI, I suppose, that they can whip out on a bus or at home

or wherever they need to.

Absolutely. And I do wish that there are things

like that, that are more widely available in terms of helping to

promote mental wellbeing, that is available at the moment for

people. And I don't know, maybe that will come on the NHS that's

more available for people, because I think there's a lot of

people that I see that I think could benefit from something

like that. But it's very difficult for me to say it when

there is nowhere to actually provide it. Yeah, so you never

know.

I mean, that's one of my hopes for the podcast, and my

kind of project in general. But I think it's tricky finding the

money and the people to value it enough to pay for it and to give

staff the time to do it also. Nasreen, it was an absolute

pleasure to hear your wonderful stories and to hear all your

insights on craft. So thank you so much for coming on the

podcast. If people want to follow you on Instagram or find

out more about your makes, how would they do that?

So I am on Instagram, and my handle is

@sewcraftynaz. That's where you will find me and all my makes

and half-makes and everything else (laughs).

And is it sew as in sewing? S-E-W?

S-E-W crafty Naz with a Z, as one word. But yes,

that's where you'll find my creative corner. But thank you

so much for having me on! I've really enjoyed it. This is my

first podcast, so I'm very honoured that it's yours. So

that's really lovely.

Thank you, it's been a privilege.

Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit podcast. If

you'd like to find out more about therapeutic knitting, you

can follow me on Instagram @knittingistherapeutic, or at my

website therapeuticknitting.org, where you can also sign up to my

newsletter to receive my blog on the themes from series one. If

you're enjoying the podcast, I would really appreciate it if

you could leave a rating and a review on your podcast app. This

will help grow the podcast and let more people know about the

therapeutic benefits of knitting. And don't forget to