The Joy of Making with Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck

Hello, and welcome back to series two of the Why I

Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical

psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits

for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different

knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental

health. For the first episode of series two, I'm delighted to be

joined by Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck, the founders and

creative directors of Pom Pom magazine. As you'll probably be

able to tell, I'm a big fan of Pom Pom. You can find links to

all of the yarns and the patterns we discuss, and to Pom

Pom magazine, in the show notes.

Hi, Meghan and Lydia, welcome to the podcast.

Hello, thank you for having us.

Hi!

Hi, you're welcome. I wonder if it's helpful just for

audio purposes for you each to just introduce yourself so

people know from your accents!

Hi, yes, my name is Lydia, and you can tell that I

am British. And that's probably the main way that you're going

to be able to tell the difference between Meghan and I!

Yep. And I'm Meghan, and I'm here in Austin,

Texas, with my American accent.

So it's early in the morning for you, Meghan.

Yeah, it's eight o'clock in the morning.

But I have already had plenty to do today. So I'm happy to to be

here at eight o'clock in the morning.

Super. Well, thank you so much for joining me on

the podcast. I always start with asking where your story with

knitting began personally. Meghan, do you want to start?

Sure. I learned to knit from my

boyfriend's mother when I was in high school, so when I was 16.

And I wanted to learn and she was eager to teach me and I just

spent a couple of days on her sofa with her helping me when I

needed it. And yeah, she made me knit a whole sweater as my first

project! So it was a good introduction.

Wow! Do you still have it?

I have parts of it. As you can imagine, as

the first project, it did not turn out wonderfully, so I have

parts of it repurposed into different things. So I still

have the yarn.

It's found a new life elsewhere.

Yes. [Laughs]

Did you carry on knitting straight away?

Yeah I did, I think! Well, I was 16 then. And

then a couple years later, I went to university and I

definitely was knitting there. So yeah, I've never really

stopped since then.

Great. And how about you, Lydia?

Well, I'm pretty sure that my mum did teach me to

knit when I was little, maybe like seven or eight, something

like that. But it didn't really stick then. So I properly

started knitting when I was at university. So I was like, I

think, 19 or 20. And it happened because one of my housemates at

the time had taken up knitting and she was making a garter

stitch scarf, as people do often when they start... not Meghan of

course, Meghan made a jumper! [Laughs]

A high achiever! [Laughs]

But yeah, so this friend of mine, Jess, was

knitting. And I was like, "Oh, you know, I'll have a go on

that!". And not long after then I went home for, I think, maybe

an Easter or summer holiday back to Wales, where I grew up. And

it was raining, as it often does in Wales, and so I spent quite a

lot of time inside teaching myself to knit. And in

retrospect, it's really weird that I didn't ask my mum or my

granny to just show me how but it didn't really occur to me. So

I just taught myself from a book, and I think haven't really

stopped for very long since then. I was pretty into it

straightaway.

And I know Lydia, from listening to the Pomcast,

that you're generally a creative person, so I'm assuming you've

tried lots of different creative hobbies. What do you think made

knitting stick? I don't know if it is the main one for you...?

I mean, actually, I learned to crochet. So when I

was teaching myself to knit, the book that I bought myself had

both crochet and knitting. And crochet I found a lot easier to

start with. So I started off with crochet but learned to knit

not long afterwards. Yeah, especially when I was at

university, and maybe didn't have loads of space and loads of

access to... you know, because I wasn't at art school, I didn't

have access to facilities there. Knitting is small, it's

portable, it's something that you can pick up and put down

quite easily without having to make a lot of space for it. And

I think especially when I was living in shared houses, perhaps

that's why it stuck. But also I just think I found it really

addictive. And it's kind of hard to say why, isn't it? Why some

things just kind of click, but I think there was just something

about it. I've always loved clothes and had a lot of fun

with colours and clothes. So I think the fact that I was able

to make myself little things to wear or things for my friends

was a lot of fun. And I think there's just something about the

repetitive nature of it that obviously I found quite

appealing.

How about you, Meghan? Why do you think it

stuck?

Well, I agree, you know, there's something

about knitting and crochet. The portability of it, and being

able to multitask, I think is really appealing. I think,

because I knit so much and it was so addictive early on, that

I quickly learned how to read and knit at the same time, or

watch TV or listen to a podcast or sit on the bus. You can

always do something else while you're doing it, and I think

that's really appealing. And it makes you feel productive and

like you've accomplished something, even when you're

standing in line at the post office or something like that.

Do you think you're a natural multitasker?

I must be! [Laughs]

For myself, I think my brain likes to kind of go

freelancing if I'm just sitting watching a zoom training or

something. I feel like it really helps me, to be able to knit

then.

Yeah, yesterday at Pom Pom our team

had a big meeting that could have been quite boring [laughs].

It was sort of about statistics from all of our different areas

of expertise, from sales to social media, you know, all the

different things, and I think Lydia was darning, I was

crocheting, during that meeting. And yeah, I think it's really

useful to allow your brain to kind of relax and let the

It must be so nice to be not the only person doing it!

information...

I've never experienced being on a training when I wasn't the

only person knitting. And I guess the other thing is there

to be a basic assumption that you can still be paying

attention when you're doing that.

Yes. It's nice, because I feel like I did

do knitting in university, during lectures or whatever, and

be the only one. People who don't understand are like, "Are

they really paying attention?", you know? But yeah, it's pretty

standard at Pom Pom.

It'd be lovely to hear about how your knitting

stories then collided and created Pom Pom magazine.

Yeah, I mean, it was 10 years ago now, right?

Happy birthday!

Thanks! I think we started talking about

it in January 10 years ago. So like, down to the month,

probably. We worked together at the knitting shop Loop in

London.

Was that at Cross Street? In the first location?

Yeah, in the little one!

Because I actually used to come in there. I lived

around the corner at the time.

Well, you probably saw one of us. [Laughs]

And then Lydia went to Mexico for a while, and lived there.

And then when you came back, I was pretty much like, "Let's do

something. What are we gonna do?" But we had both recently

finished MAs, and Lydia's was in linguistics and mine was in

English literature, and we were, I guess, both kind of at loose

ends. I don't know if that's true for you. But yeah, I didn't

really know what I was doing with my life. We kind of decided

that we wanted to create a project. And working in the shop

was lovely and so inspiring, and we saw a lot of magazines coming

through and saw there wasn't really something that really

spoke to us. So we decided to do it kind of as an experiment, I

feel like! And then it went really well.

Yeah, I feel like we went into it, like you said,

like an experiment or a creative project. We didn't launch a big

branded business. We didn't really have a business plan.

[Laughs] And I feel like we've said quite a lot since that,

perhaps, it's good that we didn't think it through too

much, because we might have been overwhelmed by it. In fact, I'm

pretty sure we would have been overwhelmed by the amount of

work it was going to be, and about the amount of things that

we didn't know about publishing. I mean, Meghan had a bit of a

background in publishing, and we had people we could talk to, and

we did the research we needed to do. And like Meghan said, we

were in the shop, kind of seeing what was going on in the

knitting world. Well, in that corner of the knitting world.

But yeah, it's amazing that it's been 10 years.

Mmm. Well, I'm really glad you did. I think sometimes

that happens with knitting. If I look back on it, I think, "What

was I doing starting that really ambitious project or thinking I

could knit this thing without a pattern that I would never do

now that I know more about how these things work!" But because

I was naive and didn't know any better I just went for it. And

actually, sometimes, I mean, certainly in your case with Pom

Pom magazine, it's worked out I think, guys! [Laughs] I'd love

to hear more about... I know, Meghan, when we spoke about

setting up the interview, you said that you guys often talk

about the role of knitting on mental wellbeing and that that's

something you guys feel strongly about. I'd love to hear a bit

more about how you think knitting benefits your mental

health. Lydia, do you want to start?

Sure, yeah. It's definitely something that both

Meghan and I have spoken about, and we as a team. And then it's

also something that comes up a lot in conversations about

knitting with people I know who don't knit. I think there's

probably been a bit more awareness recently about the

benefits of doing things like knitting. But for myself,

personally, I think what we spoke about already, you know,

that if you're somebody who maybe finds it hard to sit still

and concentrate on something, it can be a really nice way to kind

of quiet that part of your brain that's quite sort of fidgety.

Like, I'm a real fidgeter by nature. If I'm not knitting, I'm

probably fiddling with my hair relentlessly or something. I

can't seem to keep my hands still. So I think that's good,

because it allows me to concentrate better, and then to

feel better subsequently about myself. Because I think it's

easy to be hard on yourself, if you're struggling to concentrate

on something, and if you can find a way to manage that,

whichever way works for you (and for me, for example, knitting or

For you, does it matter what it is you knit? Is

crochet works) then that's a positive. And I just feel like

it's that nice feeling of being able to see your time. So you

can kind of see maybe you didn't get up to much over the last

couple of weeks, for whatever reason, maybe you just didn't

want to, or nothing really came up that you wanted to make plans

for. It's nice to be able to look back and be like, "Oh,

yeah, maybe I started a pair of socks, or maybe I even finished

them. Or maybe I just decided on some colours for something that

I want to make." And it kind of gives shape to time in that way,

which I think can be quite reassuring.

all knitting equal?

I think the way that I knit has changed over the

years, and I think it used to be that I would quite often want to

make really challenging things. And nowadays, at least at the

moment - you know, that could change again - but at the

moment, I feel like I mainly am drawn to knitting things that I

find relatively straightforward. So for example, I could listen

to something at the same time, or be doing something else at

the same time. So in that way, it kind of matters like gauging

what kind of project I want to make, what kind of energy do I

have at the moment. And I guess there are certain things that I

just really like. I just love making socks, big fan of making

socks. I'm always constantly making socks. I really like

making things I can wear, I suppose, for want of a better

way of putting it.

And will you think more about the end product or

more about the process? For me, I think more about the process.

The more I knit, I'll think "I need to do some colourwork" or

"I need to do some cables". And then I'll find something that

fits that, that I always want, but...

Yeah, I think it's a balance. I think that for me,

what I want from my knitting at the moment is something a bit

steadier and less challenging. That will kind of inform what I

decide to make. Because it might be that I'm drawn to a certain

pattern, but I just think, "You know what, maybe now isn't the

right time and I'll come back to that when I'm feeling a bit more

ambitious".

How about you, Meghan?

Well, I feel like there's so many parts of

it. Like Lydia was saying about that feeling of being at a loose

end or if you're not really getting up to much, which I

think a lot of us can relate to in the last couple years. But I

remember before we started Pom Pom and before I kind of... I

don't want to say figured out what I was doing with my life

because I don't know that I've still done that [laughs]. But

when I didn't have a job and I was really kind of aimless,

knitting and (on Ravelry) cataloguing my projects, having

that sense of accomplishment every day was really good for

me. And the sense of community that came from that, even though

a lot of it was online at the time, was really helpful. I will

say, there have been different times in my life where

something's going on with a friend or even with me, or big

life changes, if someone has been ill, or even died, or

having a baby, whatever it is, sometimes knitting, either for

them or not even for them, but just sort of processing that

information while you're making something is really helpful. And

it's almost like a form of release or a way of just working

through that information but physically with your hands, and

creating something out of that. And even if it's something that

I've just kept for myself, or whatever, it's still really

helpful. But yeah, I think one of the main benefits of knitting

to my mental health is colour, and being able to play with

colour, and you can be so specific about what colours you

are using and what you're going to be looking at for hours and

hours and hours. I feel like colour really has that huge

impact on my personal mental health inside.

Sorry about that. So you were saying that colour is a

big part of why knitting feels therapeutic, so you get to kind

of combine different colours. And I think that's a really good

point that you actually have a long relationship (or I do!)

with the knitting project when it's in your hands, because I'm

not necessarily that fast. But I might decide I really want a

yellow jumper or something, and that cheers me up while I'm

working on it and then afterwards, too. How about you,

Lydia?

Oh, yeah, that's pretty much my favourite thing

ever anyway, and so to be able to work with colour in knitting

is just one of the great joys. And actually, there's exactly

what Meghan said, there's an aspect of processing things, and

it's kind of a meditative thing in a lot of ways. But there's

also an aspect of distraction, and I think that that's okay; I

think a certain amount of distraction... not a

pathological amount where you're ignoring things, but just if

there's a lot going on and things are tough for whatever

reason, then sometimes it's just really nice to take a moment if

you can, and just be like, "I really like the way those two

colours look together" and just allow yourself to get involved

in something that you do have control over, to a certain

extent. Obviously we've all had projects go wrong and continue

to do so, but even when they go wrong, you can unravel them and

have another go, and that in itself I find really comforting.

And so I think sometimes it's quite nice to just be like, "I'm

just gonna think about this for a little bit and pause the other

things."

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And

actually, it's not something that's come up, I don't think,

in the podcast so far, but I think certainly in Coronavirus

times, there have been times where I felt like I needed

something that was within my control. And that was to choose

some sparkly navy blue yarn for socks with little flashes of

rainbows that I could be in control of when everything else

was big and scary and not in my control at all.

I think that's a really good point about the

unravelling because I was talking to some quilters

recently, and I was like, "Oh, sewing freaks me out." Because

once you cut into that fabric, you can't go back. So it's

something particular about knitting and crochet where there

is that reassurance that you can just unravel it and start over

again. That's really nice.

Yeah, absolutely. I've been running therapeutic

knitting groups and that's something we've been practising:

the idea of making safe mistakes. In knitting, unless

you get the scissors out, you really have got always what you

started with, even if it goes terribly wrong. And I felt the

same about sewing, actually. I did start dressmaking and the

idea of cutting into the fabric... there's no going back

from that, is there? [Laughs] And also with your point about

portability, I think after having children that certainly

made knitting more accessible for me, because I could knit in

five minutes when I wasn't ever sure how long a nap was going to

last; whereas to get a sewing machine out or... I guess with

other hobbies like art or things, there might be more

things you can't take around with you, like you can with

knitting.

Yeah, I agree. [Laughs] I mean, I was able to

knit while I was feeding a baby, early on, which is huge.

Good skills, good commitment! [Laughs] And what

kind of things are you drawn to, Meghan, at the moment in terms

of what knitting floats your boat right now?

I agree with Lydia that I like to knit things

that I can wear. I do make things for my kids, but they

don't appreciate them as much as I do. [Laughs] I'm not

monogamous with the types of things that I knit. But I've

been doing a lot more crochet recently. I do like to make

garments even though in Texas I don't need them that often! But

living here has meant that I'm experimenting with other plant

fibres and figuring out what I can wear in Texas when it's hot.

But yeah, everything! But I have been on a little bit of a

sweater kick since August.

Sure. Do you mind what type? I can see you're

wearing colourwork at the moment. In terms of technique,

does it matter to you?

No, it doesn't matter. [Laughs] But I think I

am into projects with more than one colour, because it's fun.

So you like combining those colours as well?

Yeah. And I've gotten to a point now where I

shouldn't really buy yarn. So not having a sweater quantity of

one colour means that I have to figure out how to mix them

together.

Okay. Yeah, just an added challenge! And in terms of

thinking about the benefits to your mental health, how much is

that also true of the things that you've made if you're

making garments and then wearing them afterwards? Because I

suppose for me, I feel like I still get a boost to my mood on

days when I can wear something I've made. And maybe people also

notice and ask about it. I don't know about you guys...?

Yeah, like we've been saying colour is, for us at

least, one of the great joys of knitting and making things. I

tend to sort of stay in love with colours, you know, I might

find new colours that I love, but it's pretty rare for me to

change my mind about and no longer like one. So if I've

chosen a colour for a jumper, or whatever it is, pair of socks or

a hat, that every time I wear it, I'm just like, "I love this

colour!" And it's also just a nice feeling to have made

something that you wanted, and you got to make it and maybe you

have a nice connection to the yarn in some way or to the

pattern in some way. Or maybe you have memories of when you

were making it and who was around or who you were talking

to, and it kind of brings all of that back. And also, selfishly,

I like it when people are like, "Oh my god, I love your jumper!

Did you make it?" Then you're like, "Yeah!" I always say that

winter, as it starts to get cold, at least for the more

traditional British knitting, making jumpers and so on, less

plant fibres, it's just a great season. It's a great season for

compliments! [Laughs]

Yeah! I don't think there's anything wrong with

that. I think that's great to feel like you get a little boost

from somebody saying, "Oh, you're so clever to have made

that!" Because it's not even just that you look nice, it's

also an even better compliment, really!

Yeah, it takes the focus away from how you look. It

feels like a compliment that I can more easily take on board.

If someone knows I'm a knitter, and they're like, "Oh, did you

make that jumper?" and I did, then I'm just like, "Mmm yes, I

feel good about this."

How about you, Meghan, with your relationship

with the finished articles?

Yeah, as soon as it did get cold enough here

to wear sweaters, somebody in the line to pick up my kids was

like, "[Gasp] Your sweater!" and I was like, " It's my time! This

is our season!" [Laughs] But, yeah, it feels great. And I

think one of the great things about knitting is that you can

make exactly what you want. I've never seen another sweater that

looks like mine, you know, in these colours and this design,

and it's exactly what I intended, and I think that's

really satisfying. Especially if you are particular about what

you wear, then being able to make that vision come true is

really satisfying.

That's brilliant. Thank you. And I'd love to ask

each of you about a significant knitting project. You can

interpret that however you like. It could be something you've

made, it could be one of the Pom Pom designs or... I know you've

both designed, haven't you, for Pom Pom?

I think I have an answer. Lydia, do you

remember the mittens with the colour outline? We kind of

figured those out together. And that was a really satisfying

process. They look really simple, but in order to do them,

we had to do an Estonian technique. So it's a plain

coloured mitten, but it has like an outline all around the edge.

And so they look very simple, but I was like, "I want mittens

that look like this, but I can't figure out how to make it

happen". But Lydia had read this Estonian knitting technique

book, and was like, "I think it might work like this". So we

figured it out together, and it was a really satisfying, fun

thing to figure out. And I think that for designing, figuring out

how to do something that's not always immediately obvious is

really fun.

So you like the kind of challenge element of it?

Yeah.

How about you, Lydia? Can you think of a significant

project?

Yeah, I think so. I have two things come to mind.

One of them is my Quadrillion jumper which is a jumper or

sweater that Meghan designed for issue six of Pom Pom. So that's

now eight and a half years ago or something, quite a long time

ago. And I made myself a version of it in the same yarn as the

original, in the Uncommon Thread BFL, but mine's in... I think

it's called Meadow Grass, and it's a kind of limy greeny

colour. I really loved making that jumper, because it's quite

a good combination of... there's lots and lots of different

cables on the front of the jumper, so you're paying

attention while you're doing that part, but then, for the

rest, it's moss stitch and a bit more straightforward. So it's

got this great combination of challenging and more mindless

knitting. But I think it was just, at the time, something I

was really proud of because it was exactly what I wanted. And

it was just really lovely that Meghan had designed it and then

I got to wear it. And it was kind of part of Pom Pom. And

then the other thing I was going to say is maybe Woodwardia, when

I made and designed that, because that was something I'd

had in the back of my mind for quite a long time. It's a kind

of raglan jumper with a sort of purl stitch design on the

raglan. And then that led to me working on the raglan book that

we published a couple years ago. Wait, was it a couple of years

and a half ago. But that book was something that I really

loved creating. And then that jumper was the kind of start of

it.

Okay, great. So it was a jumper AND a kind of, I

don't know, foot into the book.

Yeah, exactly. And it's something that I still wear

quite a lot, as is Quadrillion. So they're both things that have

remained kind of staples in my wardrobe.

I wonder if I could take the opportunity, just in

terms of my fan-ness of Pom Pom magazine, just to say about how

Pom Pom was kind of pivotal in my knitting journey as well. I

had been a knitter... So I, like you Lydia, had learned to knit

when I was seven and had some Donald Duck needles and made a

very tight and very holey blanket for a mouse and then had

stopped. And then my mum taught me when I was doing my doctorate

because she said I needed to do something that was not related

to psychology. And then was kind of knitting but that was pre-...

I mean, it wasn't pre- the actual internet, but it was

pre-YouTube or anything like that. So I'd learned from a

taught a whole group of people at work to knit because we were

making blankets for somebody who'd had babies. And so then I

taught some slightly younger people to knit, and the first

thing they did was to look on the internet and go on

Instagram. And I had not thought there was anything on Instagram

for me, I thought it was about celebrities and diets! And then

she was like, "Oh look, there's all this cool stuff!". And that

was how I discovered Pom Pom magazine, which really started

me on a different trajectory of knitting garments. I made a

Vellamo sweater and various other projects. And I think it

made a big difference, learning about this Instagram community

and learning that there were more patterns out there and

things that I actually could see myself wearing, that I had no

idea that existed because I learned to knit before any of

that was there, I suppose.

That's so lovely! Thank you.

Yeah, it's always so lovely to hear.

I guess you guys hear a lot of stories about knitting.

Do other people tell you about knitting and how it's impacted

people's mental health? Is that something you hear about often?

That is a good question. And I'm finding it

weirdly difficult to answer! I think at the moment, my work

life is obviously very knitting-related. But actually,

outside of my work life, I don't talk to that many knitters. So

not so much. But I often have exchanges where people want my

stories about knitting, I suppose. Which seems like a

shame. I feel like I'm lacking in other people's knitting

stories.

We get sent proposals for people's personal

stories about how knitting has helped their mental health.

Obviously, we can't publish them all but I feel like we do get a

fair few people reaching out to us with their stories about how

it's been healing after an injury or an illness or a major

life change, or...

Yes, you're so right. I think the word

"story"... for some reason, I was imagining people talking in

real life.

Do people do that anymore? [Laughs]

"No" was my answer! [Laughs]

We published a story about a friend of ours

whose recovery from alcoholism was really helped by his

learning to knit.

Yes, I read that one.

I can't remember what issue that is now,

but it's a great story. One of my oldest friends recently broke

her back, and has been recovering from that and

multiple surgeries. She's actually a surgeon herself, and

she's finding it very hard to lie around [laughs] doing

nothing, basically. I sent her a copy of our beginners book, and

some yarn and needles. She's been staying at her mom's while

she's been recovering, and she's like, "As soon as I get home,

I'm turning my guestroom into a craft room". She's a total

convert now. She texts me every day showing her progress. And

you know, it's gotten a lot better as she's been going on,

and I think it has given her a sense of purpose and direction

in a time when she's been kind of struggling.

That's brilliant! And it must be a really hard time to

think, "Oh, I can't do this, I can't do that, I can't do

this... but this I can do!" And I guess being a surgeon, she's a

high achiever. She's going to go with it.

I know. [Laughs] Yeah, she is a high

achiever so she was a little hard on herself at first, but I

think it's been good for her.

I think it is really powerful that, like you said,

you can see and touch your progress. It makes it easier to

notice, doesn't it? And I actually just was writing a blog

for somebody else about the therapeutic benefits of craft,

and one of my three top tips was to show and tell. I think when

we're adults, we're not that good at showing and telling. We

get out of that habit. Kids do it all the time; they draw a

picture and they immediately want to show you. But I think

having someone you can text, even if it's two rows of

knitting, text a picture and they'll say, "Well done!" That

does make a difference, doesn't it?

It does, yeah. Definitely.

Has your relationship with the knitting changed since

it's... I guess it's been your job for a long time now, but I

don't know whether you ever feel like it feels too much like work

now? Or not really?

Not the actual knitting itself, because our

jobs are knitting-related... I mean, they're pretty much all

about knitting. But actually making things... I mean, it's

not NOT part of our job, but that's not the main thing that

we're doing when we're working for Pom Pom. My relationship to

knitting has changed over the past 10 years, but I think it's

not entirely to do with my job. I think it's more to do with

more general shifts in life. Actually, knitting has been a

real constant. It's quite amazing how much... I had to

take a break from it at the beginning of last year because I

got repetitive strain injury in my elbows, which was really

difficult actually, because I remember just thinking, "We're

just about to go into a lockdown here. What am I going to do? I'm

not allowed to go out and about (and quite right) but what am I

going to...?" I was almost quite panicked! But aside from that

break, I've very steadily knitted. And if anything, Pom

Pom adds a positive dimension to knitting because it means that

you see people sending in submissions, or you see a new

yarn that you haven't worked with yet, and it kind of keeps

the excitement, I think.

I think when we first started, the problem

was that we didn't have enough time to knit. [Laughs] We were

always like, "Aargh, we started this knitting magazine and now

we have no time to knit because we're always working on it!" But

we've got lots of colleagues now so that we do have more time to

knit. But yeah, you're right. I have never fallen out of love

with knitting on this trajectory, and I'm constantly

inspired.

The last question that I always ask is about the

greatest gift that knitting has given you for the rest of your

life. Any thoughts?

It's Lydia! [Laughs]

Aw! What a great answer! I mean, other people

can't get one though, so... [Laughs]

Yeah, and I would say the greatest gift has been

Meghan and the people that we work with.

I guess you get to curate your own team now!

Yeah!

Of cool people.

Yeah, that's the first question on the

are you cool? [Laughs] You have to be cool.

Do you mean like your relationships more than Pom Pom?

Or both?

Yeah, it would be sad if Pom Pom ended but it

would be sadder if Lydia and I ended, you know?

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think there are

lots of kinds of partnerships in life, and I think a creative

partnership is a kind that maybe doesn't get discussed as much.

And actually, I think it's really lucky that we met each

other when we did and that we happened to both be a little bit

at a loose end. We have similar vision and taste for Pom Pom,

but it's not the same and that's really important. And I think

that without Meghan, I definitely wouldn't have been

able to achieve anything even close to what we've done with

Pom Pom. And it's kind of the power of both of us together.

We're a sum greater than our parts.

Yeah. But actually, also, there's been a lot of

evolution on that journey, I guess, that it started off as a

kind of creative project. And then got quite big and you

probably ended up doing lots of different jobs. And maybe you've

ended up back in more of the creative director role, probably

through having to also be the people who wrap things and

figure out how to produce things and all of those things... that

you've managed to maintain your friendship and be good business

partners throughout that. And an international move also, Meghan?

Yeah, I was thinking about recently the

moment when I told Lydia I was moving. [Laughs]

How did that go?

Not really great! [Laughs]

That must have been scary for both of you.

We were both pretty stressed out about it, I

think. But we did it and it was fine. And actually it's been

good I think! For Pom Pom.

I don't know, Lydia, whether you were kind of

co-opted into Meghan's answer [laughs] or whether you wanted

to have a completely different one, which you're also allowed

to!

I don't feel like I was co-opted, as Meghan said the

thing that I couldn't... I hadn't quite got my brain into

gear. Yeah, I was just trying to think, I don't know what the...

Aside from the gift of making, which I think is pretty much my

favourite thing to do in my life, to make things. And

knitting is not the only way in which I make things, but it was

the first one that I really got into, the first craft that I

really kind of... mastered is not really what I mean, but you

know... the first craft that I really put a lot of time and

energy into, enough that it became something I could do

whilst watching TV or whatever. I had that real muscle memory.

And that's led on to me learning other crafts too. I think it's

good that it started with knitting.

Super, thank you. If people want to find out more

about Pom Pom, or about you guys specifically, how can they do

that?

Well, you can find us on Instagram @pompommag. And

our website is pompommag.com. I think in most of the places we

are pompommag. Is that true? I can't remember now.

We're pompommag everywhere.

There's also the Pomcast.

Yes. So we have a podcast which is normally me and

Sophie, who works with us, presenting although we do often

have other Pom Pom people on and guests. And you can find that as

Pomcast in I think pretty much all of the podcast-related

feeds.

Thank you so much, Meghan and Lydia, for joining

the podcast.

Thank you!

Yeah, thank you so much for having us. It's been

really nice.

Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit

podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic

knitting, you can follow me on Instagram

@knittingistherapeutic, or at my website therapeuticknitting.org

where you can also sign up to my newsletter to receive my blog on

the themes from series one. If you're enjoying the podcast, I

would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a

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let more people know about the therapeutic benefits of

knitting. And don't forget to subscribe too. Thank you!